In which Asher and I discuss "The Dark Knight", "Watchmen" and the MPAA."
The background to this convo is that I insulted TDK in my facebook status (the mature outlet for all aggression) and was roundly insulted. Asher responded: "no wall posts since july 6th.
insult the dark knight and within 10 minutes, 3 posts about how youre wrong."
Me (4:53:28 PM): In my defense I didn't insult it
Me (4:53:35 PM): I just refused to get on the bandwagon
Asher (4:53:50 PM): but the wagon is so soft and welcoming
Asher (4:53:51 PM): join us
Asher (4:54:13 PM): and I also think its unfair to compare the Nolan movies to the
Asher (4:54:24 PM): cause they’re not trying to do the same things
Me (4:54:17 PM): I mean, agreed
Me (4:54:23 PM): they’re completely different
Asher (4:54:32 PM): yeah
Me (4:55:46 PM): I guess my thing is that frank millers "the dark knight returns" is much better than Chris Nolan’s "the dark knight" and they both bring up the same issues. what does vigilante power do to a man? what happens to civil rights? etc. which Nolan flirts with but ultimately does nothing with
Me (4:55:58 PM): though I had a jolly good time and was engrossed the entire time
Me (4:56:06 PM): and the joker was terrifying
Asher (4:56:16 PM): I think Nolan did a pretty good job bringing up the issues
Asher (4:56:28 PM): cause I think, and I need to see it again, but I think he wanted to raise the issue
Asher (4:56:30 PM): not answer it
Me (4:56:32 PM): he touched on them
Me (4:56:47 PM): but the whole spying thing was like oh well we'll destroy it and it will all be okay
Me (4:56:55 PM): same with the torture issue
Asher (4:57:08 PM): right
Me (4:57:09 PM): have you read millers dark night
Me (4:57:12 PM): ?
Asher (4:57:16 PM): I haven’t
Asher (4:57:19 PM): I bought it
Asher (4:57:34 PM): I bought it before but I didn’t know if I wanted to read it first and then see it
Asher (4:57:42 PM): somehow I decided to convince myself to see it first then read it
Me (4:59:06 PM): okay, I mean they’re completely different stories
Me (4:59:24 PM): but miller completely revolutionized the batman comic
Me (4:59:38 PM): essentially laid the ground work for Nolan’s movies
Asher (4:59:53 PM): hm, yeah that makes sense
Me (5:00:05 PM): so know that going in
Asher (5:00:29 PM): yeah, millers always darker
Me (5:01:12 PM): I guess I feel like yeah it was a pretty awesome movie, but I’m resentful of all the praise its getting because what everyone is praising it for has been done with more violence and more darkness and better in comics like watchmen and dark knight returns and I guess someone’s got to start the backlash and it might as well be me
Me (5:01:37 PM): the ideas it raises while new to super hero movies are not new to super heroes
Asher (5:01:57 PM): no you’re right
Me (5:02:15 PM): and its frustrating that this is considered so revolutionary when this was being done 20 25 years ago by Frank Miller and Alan Moore
Asher (5:02:07 PM): but for mainstream movies, its all new
Asher (5:02:57 PM): I mean, think about this vs. superman or Spiderman or xmen
Me (5:02:21 PM): this is true
Me (5:02:28 PM): and it was pretty damn kick ass
Asher (5:02:41 PM): yeah
Me (5:02:48 PM): "how about a magic trick, I’m going to make this pencil disappear"
Asher (5:02:59 PM): oh my god
Me (5:03:07 PM): exactly
Asher (5:03:12 PM): the entire packed theater - "OH GOD"
Me (5:03:23 PM): we'll see how watchmen does with these same issues next year
Asher (5:03:32 PM): yeah it’ll be really interesting
Asher (5:03:40 PM): to see how audiences take to that after dark knight
Me (5:03:51 PM): the groundwork is there for it to surpass this, but I also don’t trust the director one bit
Asher (5:04:01 PM): agreed
Me (5:04:24 PM): I mean the source material is great, the cast is fantastic, the visuals look awesome
Me (5:04:28 PM): lets hope it doesn’t suck
Asher (5:04:40 PM): I hope so
Asher (5:05:15 PM): I think the script will be interesting
Me (5:05:17 PM): yeah
Me (5:05:21 PM): its such a huge book
Asher (5:05:24 PM): and if Snyder can control his urges to make it too 300y
Asher (5:05:27 PM): yeah
Me (5:05:26 PM): yeah
Me (5:05:27 PM): seriously
Me (5:06:03 PM): I mean he’s def drawing on the visual style of the book which is exactly what he did with 300, and the story of watchmen is just more interesting than 300 to begin with
Asher (5:06:12 PM): yeah it is
Me (5:06:13 PM): and fun as it was 300 is completely ridiculous
Asher (5:06:19 PM): I think for the 300 he did a fine job
Me (5:06:21 PM): exactly
Me (5:06:24 PM): for what it is
Me (5:06:26 PM): I had fun
Asher (5:06:27 PM): for all that’s in the 300, he tapped it dry
Asher (5:06:28 PM): yeah
Me (5:06:38 PM): but watchmen is so much more
Asher (5:06:49 PM): yeah
Me (5:06:53 PM): it is one of the most revolutionary comics of all time
Me (5:06:56 PM): so we'll see
Me (5:07:00 PM): nothing to do but wait and see
Asher (5:07:10 PM): yeah, when is it? march?
Me (5:07:39 PM): something like that
Me (5:11:31 PM): back to dark knight I approve of the flipping of trucks
Asher (5:11:51 PM): in tdk?
Me (5:12:10 PM): yes sir
Asher (5:12:17 PM): oh man
Asher (5:12:30 PM): that whole sequence I thought was genius
Asher (5:12:32 PM): with no music
Me (5:14:35 PM): oh god
Me (5:14:40 PM): completely terrifying
Me (5:14:51 PM): and knowing what was going to happen to dent made it all the more tense
Asher (5:15:00 PM): oh man
Me (5:15:00 PM): I was like "is this the moment? this? no this"
Asher (5:15:08 PM): I know!
Me (5:15:24 PM): also, the blowing up of the hospital
Me (5:15:26 PM): hilarious
Asher (5:15:37 PM): it was so awesome
Me (5:16:30 PM): I mean every scene with the joker
Me (5:16:35 PM): awesome
Asher (5:16:55 PM): so so so creepy
Me (5:17:14 PM): seriously
Me (5:17:21 PM): the make-up team out did themselves
Asher (5:17:38 PM): my brother said one of his friends had to leave because she was so scared
Me (5:17:45 PM): I could see that
Asher (5:17:44 PM): yeah, no cgi
Me (5:18:03 PM): they must have done cgi on two face
Asher (5:18:26 PM): oh, yeah 2 face was
Asher (5:17:59 PM): I still am amazed it was pg13
Asher (5:18:16 PM): I hate the mpaa and this is such a clear reason why
Me (5:18:21 PM): they should have rated it r
Asher (5:18:41 PM): like, I watch horror movies that are R and not as scary or gory or violent
Asher (5:18:55 PM): but I’m pretty sure you never see anyone die in DK
Me (5:19:17 PM): no its just implied, but implied in a scary scary way
Asher (5:19:41 PM): yeah
Me (5:19:39 PM): the moment when the hung batguy bangs against the commissioners window
Asher (5:19:48 PM): oh man
Me (5:19:47 PM): I screamed a little
Asher (5:19:57 PM): I think I did too
Me (5:20:07 PM): cause other times I was braced
Me (5:20:16 PM): that time, not so much
Asher (5:20:54 PM): yeah not really
Me (5:21:21 PM): I wish there had been more scarecrow
Me (5:21:36 PM): I love cillian Murphy
Me (5:21:41 PM): with all my heart
Asher (5:21:47 PM): I agree
Asher (5:21:54 PM): I think that was a little flaw
Asher (5:22:08 PM): unless its followed up a lot in a 3rd movie
Asher (5:26:25 PM): but yeah I wish we just saw cillian one more time instead of just assuming he’s in jail
Me (5:27:02 PM): yeah
Me (5:27:12 PM): I feel like he and the joker would have been friends
Asher (5:27:27 PM): yeah
Me (5:27:34 PM): though I fully recognize there was probably casting issues and he had to work on a different movie blah blah blah
Me (5:27:35 PM): but still
Me (5:27:45 PM): it was weird to throw him in there just at the beginning
Asher (5:27:53 PM): yeah
Asher (5:28:03 PM): he’s gotta finish off somehow
Me (5:28:29 PM): I hope
Me (5:28:41 PM): I’m def curious to see if they do a number three
Me (5:28:47 PM): and if so what villain they use
Asher (5:29:38 PM): agreed
Asher (5:29:51 PM): I’ve been looking around the boards and such and everyone has a theory
Asher (5:30:01 PM): but I asked joblo and he told me no talk of a 3rd yet
Asher (5:30:53 PM): it’ll be really interesting
Me (5:31:12 PM): yeah nothing on imdb
Me (5:31:22 PM): I don’t believe any rumor until its on imdb
Asher (5:31:27 PM): if Nolan does a 3rd, if they have joker again and recast, if they just say "oh yeah the jokers in jail and we cant see him ever again..."
Me (5:31:39 PM): they’re not going to recast the joker
Me (5:31:48 PM): like, that would be the stupidest move ever
Asher (5:31:56 PM): I would agree
Me (5:32:06 PM): even before the movie opened it was an iconic performance
Me (5:33:09 PM): they would have to do something like "oh he’s in jail, or he was killed" or whatever but almost everything would be a let down
Asher (5:33:17 PM): but then its just an issue of how you deal with the fact that he was just left hanging
Me (5:33:21 PM): yeah
Me (5:33:24 PM): literally
Asher (5:33:30 PM): yeah
Asher (5:33:36 PM): so it’ll be interesting
Asher (5:33:51 PM): also what comic they would use, or villain
Me (5:34:05 PM): yeah
Asher (5:34:11 PM): I read somewhere that Nolan said he would want to use villains that haven’t been used in other movies yet, after joker
Me (5:34:30 PM): I don’t know batman really like at all but joker is THE MOST iconic of the villains aside from catwoman
Asher (5:34:40 PM): agreed, he is
Me (5:34:45 PM): and I feel like Nolan wouldn’t want to touch catwoman with a ten foot pole
Asher (5:34:55 PM): no not at all
Me (5:34:55 PM): especially after the
Asher (5:34:59 PM): yeah
Me (5:35:06 PM): I love catwoman as a character but it would just be stupid
Asher (5:35:19 PM): the only real Nolan esque villain is the riddler but he’s very joker esque
Me (5:35:22 PM): yeah
Asher (5:35:28 PM): bane is really dark
Asher (5:35:40 PM): which would be interesting but I don’t think he was that big
Me (5:35:55 PM): yeah
Me (5:36:04 PM): the thing is though batman is just packed with villains
Me (5:36:26 PM): its almost like Nolan could find a story he wanted to tell and then just pick a villain that would work for that story
Asher (5:36:38 PM): this is also true
Me (5:37:13 PM): I’m sad they killed Rachel dawes
Me (5:37:18 PM): I mean, I know it needed to happen
Asher (5:37:21 PM): meh
Asher (5:37:22 PM): yeah
Me (5:37:32 PM): but she was like, the only woman in the entire movie
Me (5:37:39 PM): aside from traitor Ramirez
Asher (5:37:52 PM): who didn’t have any actual lines
Me (5:38:02 PM): she said Bruce a lot
Me (5:38:08 PM): and
Me (5:38:28 PM): I though Maggie was great personally
Me (5:38:35 PM): at least in her death scene
Asher (5:39:01 PM): I think they wrote it too dumb for her
Asher (5:39:03 PM): cause she’s a real actress
Asher (5:39:10 PM): but it was written for like, Katie Holmes
Me (5:39:19 PM): yeah but she did good stuff with it
Me (5:39:44 PM): I mean it just shows how weak Kate Holmes is
Me (5:39:51 PM): I feel bad
Me (5:39:56 PM): she was just outshone
Asher (5:40:03 PM): don’t feel bad
Asher (5:40:10 PM): how recently have you seen batman begins
Me (5:40:23 PM): parts of it with Clayton this spring
Asher (5:40:41 PM): cause she is so bad in that
Asher (5:40:42 PM): like
Asher (5:40:50 PM): possibly one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen
Me (5:41:00 PM): she’s charming in other things
Me (5:41:17 PM): I just feel bad that her brain has been eaten by zombietomcruse
Asher (5:41:25 PM): no seriously
Asher (5:41:28 PM): like, worst performance ever
Asher (5:41:32 PM): I watched it before DK
Me (5:41:33 PM): brain eaten
Asher (5:41:44 PM): my mom was like, wow she’s a bad actress
posted by Lark(e) at 5:23 PM
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